नेपालभासया  महाकवि सिद्धिदास महाजुं "जिमिगु भाय नेवारी मखु नेपालभास  ख:" धका आन्दोलन न्ह्याकादीगु ८० दं ति दये धुन्कल | तर आ नं "नेवारी" धाइपिं यक्व हे दु | खस् भास छ्यलीपिन्सं ला "नेवारी" या सक्कली नां "नेपालभास" ख: धका ए मथू थें च्वन | न्ह्याथाय नं "नेवारी" "नेवारी" च्वया हैरान ए यायू | तर आ फेसबुक पाखें छगू बाँलागु ज्या जू वन | आ "नेवारी" मखु "नेपालभास" छ्यले मा: धैगु चेतना वइ कि?

Almost 80 years ago, the great poet Siddhidas Mahaju said "Our language is not 'Newari', it is Nepalbhas." But the word "Newari" is still used by many people. Most of them do not know what is wrong with "Newari", particularly among the "Khas" language users. Now the popular social network site has taken down the word "Newari" from its profile database. Thousand of pages using the word "newari" are replaced by "Nepalbhasha" according to an article posted on nepalmandal dot com.

I would appreciate if Sajha could also correct the wrongly used word.

Details here: http://www.nepalmandal.com/content/12548.html

फेसबुकं 'नेवारी' खँग्वः लिकाल

न्ववाइगु भाय्‌या सूचीइ 'नेवारी' खँग्वः लिकयाः 'नेपालभाषा' तयेगु इनाप लिपा अन्ततः सोसल नेटवर्क साइट फेसबुकं 'नेवारी' खँग्वःयात पूर्ण रुपं चिइकूगु दु । थ्वया लिपा आः फेसबुक छ्यलीपिं द्वलंद्वः नेवाःतय् प्रोफाइलय् न्ववाइगु भाषाया रुपय् नेपालभाषा धकाः खनेदये धुंकूगु दु ।

न्हूगु परिवर्तन लिपा फेसबुकय् थःम्ह न्ववाइगु भाय्‌ धकाः प्रोफाइलय् भाय्‌या नां 'nepal ..' निसें च्वयेगु शुरु याःसा 'Nepal Bhasa' धकाः अटो कम्पलिट अप्सन बिइ । अथे हे 'newa' प्यंगः आखः टाइप यायेवं 'Newar / Nepal Bhasa' धकाः अप्सन बिइ । यदि 'newari' धकाः भाय्‌या नां च्वत धाःसा उगु भाय्‌या नां स्वतः नेपालभाषा धकाः हिलाबिइ, 'newari' धकाः भाय्‌या नां च्वके बिइमखु । उलि जक मखु थ्व स्वयां न्ह्यः नेवारी धकाः थःगु भाय्‌या नां च्वयातःपिनि दक्वसिया प्रोफाइलय् 'Newar / Nepalbhasa' धकाः स्वतः हिउगु दु ।

लुमंके बह जू, विश्वया दक्वं भाषाया नां व कोड ISO या ज्या याइगु लाइब्रेरि अफ कंग्रेसलिसे नेवाःतय्‌सं न्ववाइगु भाय्‌यात नेपालभाषा धकाः च्वयेत इनाप लिपा न्हापा नेवारी धकाः जुयाच्वंगु नांयात छुं दँ न्ह्यः नेवारी, नेपालभाषा धकाः भिंकूगु खः । नेपालभाषाया ISO 639-2 कोड new खः ।

Well, this is an interesting thread.

CT,

You asked me 20 years story I gave you  the recent of that. Your ignorance challenged my experience and I was compelle to put this picture for your wisdom, the issue which you outrigtly denied no? . Mind you, the activity has not changed even though it is protected. Many old houses in thimi area still does not have toilets. You do not need to  say what you did or  did not, ( it is similar, along the line that I am phd in chemistry and bla bla, some one said in this diff thread in sajha)  nobody cares, and issue here is not about whether that is sustainable practice or not, that is a separate debate, you do not need to twist the fact. I ask you to go to other villages also, like I mentioned Siddhipur-another newari settlement and observe.  If you want to draw many tangents to get  your point, then you are just digressing.  Issue about this thread is how people like you " newar" are unaware of the " other newar and thier life style"- Yet think as if you know every thing. If you do not have any idea about the thimi,  let alone the other newari towns.

Here are my few points,

1. It is important that each and every tribes accept the fact that Nepali language (khas language as some call it) is the language of the Nation and trashing the National language in the name of preserving and promoting their own regional language should not be welcomed.

2. It is also important that each and every tribes should have full rights to preserve and promote their culture/language without trashing their higer identity, the identity of being a Nepali National.

3. Nepali (Khas language) is not superior than any other language in Nepal it just happens to be our common language. It is equally important as every other spoken dialects in Nepal.

Lets look at India and Hindi language, what percentage of India has Hindi language as their mother tounge? 10%,  20%, 30%???? There are so many other tribal languages which are sustained among themselves with rich culture...Telegu...Tamil...Madrasi, Gujrati, Bengali..urdu...and so on. Do you see indians fussing about Hindi being their national language????

Question for those tribal language advocates....is there a way you can promote/preserve your mother tounge without trashing our National identity????

Shantipriya,

"You asked me 20 years story I gave you  the recent of that. Your ignorance challenged my experience and I was compelle to put this picture for your wisdom, the issue which you outrigtly denied no? "
Wrong!!! You should stop making your own ignorant assumptions. Re-read the coversation from the top. I did not ask you 20 years story of thimi or bhaktapur. You wrote "no toilets (still go to thimi or bhaktapur you will still find same case), -- About thimi bhaktapur go there you will still see hell lot of people shiting on a land early morining". These are your words. You were sounding as if other area is crystal-clean. I just asked you, where, which area, which tole, which near-by monument you will see people shiting on a land early morning. You don't have a answer.

 "Mind you, the activity has not changed even though it is protected. Many old houses in thimi area still does not have toilets."
 I don't believe it. There are approximately 8000 houses in original Newar settlement of Thimi area. You need to show me at least 10% of those houses without toilet to prove your point.
 
"You do not need to  say what you did or  did not, ( it is similar, along the line that I am phd in chemistry and bla bla, some one said in this diff thread in sajha)  nobody cares,"
Fine. I don't hope you care about the true information and positive changes. The additional information was provided to tell you my exposure with the area, I have been there, seen the spot, and I know the good and bad side of the story. If these info are "bla bla" for you, you have exposed yourself.

"and issue here is not about whether that is sustainable practice or not, that is a separate debate, you do not need to twist the fact."
Yes, it is a separate issue, I was just sharing my learning through my experience, which fascinates me. By the way, I am still waiting the contact of your Tamang friend, doing PhD. I like to share my learnings whenever they come close to the debates I engage myself.

"I ask you to go to other villages also, like I mentioned Siddhipur-another newari settlement and observe."
Been there too, studied and have spent plenty of time with Siddipur dwellers too. They are little behind Thimi but they are also making progress in improving their locality.

"If you want to draw many tangents to get  your point, then you are just digressing.  Issue about this thread is how people like you " newar" are unaware of the " other newar and thier life style"- Yet think as if you know every thing."
Matter of the fact, you are the one who helped dragging this thread beyond the scope of the original post, jumping over digressing issues, defame newars and putting self-defeating poisonous arguments. You have called Newars "sampradaik", "racist", "narrow minded", "inventor of derrogatory words", "defeated mentality" and what not. Read the thread from the beginning, or let a third person, who know nothing about Newar-khas friction, read and judge this conversation. You have "accusing mentality" and "confused state of mind", that is why you directly accused me as "ignorant", "divisive", "radical extremist thinking", and "know every thing". I listened you calmly and tried to share my opinion. I did never claim I know every thing. Some friends mentioned about additional factors, and I replied within the limit of what I knew.

"If you do not have any idea about the thimi,  let alone the other newari towns. "
Do not make your judgement that way. You don't need to have idea about Thimi to know Newar towns.  In earlier post, I mentioned "Mye-dofo", the unique rarely known local name. It clearly shows, you did not get what I know about thimi. You have to read Thimi thoroughly to know such unique names. You may think I am bragging or writing like someone you mentioned above. But, I know many people reading this thread are laughing because they know I am one of the member of the team who digitized the map of Thimi before Google-era. I processed the Landsat-TM satellite image to cross-check the areal-photo based survey maps. I obviously believe I have enough information about thimi. Due to the connection of my past work, I can have access to some latest data as well. Besides that I also know some facts beyond my field of works. FYI, thimi is the place where bihar-buddhism started, thimi is the place where buildings lay-out and urban-designs follow "baastuShastra" exactly as in Patan-chyasal area, thimi is the town built on geologically more stable land, better place from the viewpoint of earthquick risk that faced least damange in 1934 EQ. Thimi's Nigu-pukhu (two ponds that you can see in your picture too, which is now converted to park, I think) was a no-outlet pond - a unique concept of water-recycling at such height where no geological acquifer pumps water up. These two ponds were ground water source for drinking water pumped up from more than 10 wells located around the pond within 100-m radial distance. The ground-water seepage process was functioning as the natural water-purifier. I know you will get irritated while reading this much detail because you don't know the science behind this fabulous invention of 8th century, you have not seen how it worked for past 1300 years, and you have no interest in learning these fascinating system that Newar had built in Nepal. Again, I am sharing this just as a bonus token, which could be a separate issue from the OP, but useful to know.

Sidster,

"1. It is important that each ............. should not be welcomed."
Nepal's different language are not tribal language. Khas language is also a language of nation as other languages are, which is loved by everybody, including myself. While we argue for preserving and promoting other languages, we are not arguing that we need to trash Khas. Khas and non-khas languages should go together. However, if Khas keeps its undue-arrogance for a long time, it will gradually push non-khas to other side of the extreme line, where we will have only two options left -> pro-khas or anti-khas. So, it is wise for Khas arrogants to realize the worst case and take necessary correction steps before we make enough damage.

"2. It is also important that ............. being a Nepali National."
Right, and the "Nepali" should be inclusive in nature that accepts all language, religion and ethnic communities of Nepal. Currently "Nepali" is only "Khas". For example, let us see how "AntarRastriya Nepali Sahitya Samaaj" works, there is no place for Rai, limbu, Gurung, Newar, Maithali sahitya, it is solely dedicated to khas sahitya. This mis-representation of khas in the name of Nepal should be corrected.

"3. Nepali (Khas language) is not superior than any other language in Nepal it just happens to be our common language. It is equally important as every other spoken dialects in Nepal."
We have to accept, it is spoken by largest % population, and hence will have top-most priority. But it should not get 100% priority killing rest of all other languages.

"Lets look at India and........................ their national language????"
Because, Hindi is not compulsory in non-hindi speaking states, and they are free to chose their preferred language. You don't need to have hindi-proficiency to get a government job in India. In Nepal, without knowing khas language, you possibility to get a government job is 0%.

"Question for those tribal.................. trashing our National identity????"
These advocacies are in fact strengthening our national identity as a true multi-cultural, multi-ethnic diverse nation. Not all languages are in equally preserved and I can not speak for other language. As far as Newar language and culture is concerned, it is the one which helped to preserve and promote national identity of Nepal, establishing its identity in UN registration, tourism promotion, art, architecture, etc. Just see a few pictures of the Nepal pavilion of China Expo, you will see abundance of Newar art and architecture. Just visit any Nepalese Embassy, you will see mostly Newar creations that establish Nepal's identity. If you find something Newar have done in trashing our national identity, that would be interesting to know.

"1. It is important that each ............. should not be welcomed."
Nepal's different language are not tribal language. Khas language is also a language of nation as other languages are, which is loved by everybody, including myself. While we argue for preserving and promoting other languages, we are not arguing that we need to trash Khas. Khas and non-khas languages should go together. However, if Khas keeps its undue-arrogance for a long time, it will gradually push non-khas to other side of the extreme line, where we will have only two options left -> pro-khas or anti-khas. So, it is wise for Khas arrogants to realize the worst case and take necessary correction steps before we make enough damage.

Every language in Nepal is a tribal language.....You can say that the modern Nepali language has a Khas language base but it is blend of many other languages in the country. So many words and phrases in Nepali language has been borrowed from Newari, Maithali, Kirat, Hindi, Urdu and other languages. How do you define the " Khas arrogance"???? The word Khas has be hilighted recently just to bash Bahun and Chetries. Khas was just another tribal language like many others in Nepal. The original Khas language is equally distant from modern Nepali language as Maithali, bhojpuri and Newari.

"2. It is also important that ............. being a Nepali National."
Right, and the "Nepali" should be inclusive in nature that accepts all language, religion and ethnic communities of Nepal. Currently "Nepali" is only "Khas". For example, let us see how "AntarRastriya Nepali Sahitya Samaaj" works, there is no place for Rai, limbu, Gurung, Newar, Maithali sahitya, it is solely dedicated to khas sahitya. This mis-representation of khas in the name of Nepal should be corrected.

What do you expect Nepali speaking ( Khas in your words) people to do??? Do you want Bahun and chetris to open up Tribal school for Newar, Rai, and Bhojpuri children to learn the respective characters...???? Do you want Lakshmi Prasad Devkotas to write Muna Madans in Newari..????.what is your point???? Is it the funding that you lack...????Newars and Rai Gurugs are much more better off financially in Nepal than Bahun and chetris...Newars had it good in early days with the whole business monopoly and then again with blessed with skyrocketing valley land prices.....Mongloids are also better off with LAHUREISM business.....Go AHEAD and open up schools to teach your children about your culture and language...and if there is a blockage on that you have a valid complaiint...It is a duty of each and every person to respect another person's language and culture but it is the duty of the culture itself to promote and preserve its own. I personally do not like the word KHAS....not sure how this word has been politicized so much recently.

"3. Nepali (Khas language) is not superior than any other language in Nepal it just happens to be our common language. It is equally important as every other spoken dialects in Nepal."
We have to accept, it is spoken by largest % population, and hence will have top-most priority. But it should not get 100% priority killing rest of all other languages.

How exactly did Nepali Language ( Khas language ) kill other language??? It is not so called KHAS people's responsibility  to make sure that your identity survives....KHAS people should to respect and embrace your culture but you will have to be the one to promote and preserve.

"Lets look at India and........................ their national language????"
Because, Hindi is not compulsory in non-hindi speaking states, and they are free to chose their preferred language. You don't need to have hindi-proficiency to get a government job in India. In Nepal, without knowing khas language, you possibility to get a government job is 0%.

You really think we have enough of a tribal population to sustain an economy on its own like Telegu and Tamil,, and Gujrati language.??? Who has stopped schools  to put Newari classes as an optional language in schools in Bhaktapur, Patan and Kathmandu???? How about you work on formulating how you and your tribe can work on getting something like this done??? How about you create a fund with other Rich and influential Newars to create a Newari language school???? In Dallas TX, there is a Newari Community who teach their kids about Newari culture/language/ and Characters. Why don't you and other Newars work on doing something constructive like that instead of blaming Khas.....?????

Can Khas people really complain why Newars held all the business in Nepal before the 80s ???? Can khas people complain why all the lahures are Mongloids??? Can Khas people complain why all the business people in Nepal are people with Indian origin nowadays????? My Great Hajurba was a Aaate Paate Pujari....he did puja and brought home what people gave away as a daan....My grand father ...saw no other option that to make himself a pujari too...But he got a step ahead....he went to Banarash and came back as a Graduate in Samskrit ( which is what people who had access to education did back then)...my father saw no other option than following the same step....no business...no Lahureism....he went to regular college instead of religious school and became a sarkari karmachari.....i followed the same footstep ....went through the school....came to US and have become a Karmachari too.....We can see this happening everywhere....A Newar busiinessman's son is more likely to become a businessman....a lahure's son is more likely to become a lahure and a farmer's son is likely to become a farmer....keeping in mind there are few exceptions.

The point is quit complaining and do what is needed to preserve/promote your thing without anyone's help. All you can expect from others is the respect for your thing.


"Question for those tribal.................. trashing our National identity????"
These advocacies are in fact strengthening our national identity as a true multi-cultural, multi-ethnic diverse nation. Not all languages are in equally preserved and I can not speak for other language. As far as Newar language and culture is concerned, it is the one which helped to preserve and promote national identity of Nepal, establishing its identity in UN registration, tourism promotion, art, architecture, etc. Just see a few pictures of the Nepal pavilion of China Expo, you will see abundance of Newar art and architecture. Just visit any Nepalese Embassy, you will see mostly Newar creations that establish Nepal's identity. If you find something Newar have done in trashing our national identity, that would be interesting to know.

You are right....when Mahendra reported Nepali Lipi as a Nepali language, UN rejected it by saying it was registered by India already as a hindi language....Mahendra then reported Newari language as our language to give us our own identity. But here is where you are wrong....Tourists do not come to Nepal to see Newar culture....they come here to see NEPALI Culture...which includes all the culture ...with an exception of few researchers about Nepal....most tourists will have no idea about Newar Culture or language...they see it as Nepali culture. Again i am not undermining the art and architecture preserved in Newar Culture ..since Malla Dynasty...i hope you get my point. Everybody is a Nepali first then the tribe...then the region, race, jaat bhaat, and so on.

When ordinary people think of Taj Mahal they are not thinking of Mogal Empire...they are thinking of India.


I see whole lot of rambling on your writing but i am still unable to understand what is it exactly you need other Tribes to do for your Tribal needs?

What are you looking from other tribes? Fund, Participation? Respect? Involvement?????

you have been  there done that no?  but you have not been to thimi  nor you think you need to know thimi to know about newar towns, oh yeah you have seen sidhhipur, after I brought up about it. for your wisdom, i gave you proof for  everything you asked for, you thought " why in a  hell people of these days would go to public yard to shit?" I showed you picture as per your desire, now you think oh yeah that used to be there but now it is preserved re. Did you have any idea about that in a first place? Now you are saying , oh yeah been there in siddhipur and they are little behind lol..

I gave example of tamang village ( i did not mention who that guy is who is doing research) because you thought fringe area took budget away from core ktm, your igonrace and narrow mindness is just awesome and yes people like you who does not have any concrete positive idea to preserve our culture and alwys resort to desparaging other community -still love to harp about multiculturalism??  while you started  blaming  " khas" in a first place.

Under the guies of multiculturalism all you want is to brag your own culture and deamean others and nothing else. Your kind of people are just a social disgrace and disgrace to entire nepalese community. Yes I said it.

About art and architecture, Lichhavi started all those sophisticated technology   in art architecture, malla did follow and contributed to great extent, no one is denying that. but dhunge dhara, raj kulo, wells, temple, palaces started during lichhavi period. Read Brick and Bull of  Sudarshan Raj Tiwari.

Well said Sidister. But there is no point arguing with  with orthodox " I my myself" kind of conservative person. I just can not understand why you blame others for your own inefficacy?

I will stop commenting on this thread after reading Mr. Chana reply for my following comment.

My comment: Purbagraha ko chasma le hernu huncha bhanne mero bhannu kehi chaina.. ra ma yesto endless discussion ma bhag lina ni chahanna.. kina ki suteko manche lai uthauna sajilo huncha.. suteko abhinaya garne lai hunna.. 

Reply from Chana: Purbagraha, sankuchit, sampradaik," dekhnu hunchha, mero najarma tapai tesko 5 guna badhi dekhinu hunchha hola, tesaile yesto waihyat alankaar chhodera aafno kura rakhnu holaa.

I just asked him not to take a prejudice against any race and try to do healthy discussion. But he accuses me personally and claims that I am taking a prejudice on certain community. Then I knew I am done over here.
I am banging my head against the wall (having a discussion does not mean just only proving or sticking with your points, it also means analyzing the case too.

Sorry Dude I found you that you always want to stick on your point, but never ever want to find why it happened. Try to see broader picture of it. Before try to analyze any situation, don’t be Newar or Bahun or any race. Just try to be Nepali and try to find the real cause behind it. If you can, then you will be able to find the answer a lot of question by yourself.

BEFORE ACCUSING ANY RACE, JUST TRY TO BE A COMMONER OF THAT RACE AND TRY TO ANALYZE IS THAT EXACTLY THEY PRACTICE THOSE ACCUSATIONS. JUST TRY TO BE COMMER KHAS AND TRY TO SEE REALLY THEY WANT TO DOMINATE THE NEWARS ANY OTHER MINORITY ?? ( But I believe that how you take a prejudice against khas, i will not be surprised if you have not met any good commoner friend/ people from khas community)


I am quite surprised that you are having a discussion with a lot of peoples and still you never ever acknowledge what you have written can be misguiding in certain percentage.

Wow rou are really really GREAT.

Peace

What really upsets me is when we talk about the Language and Culture in Nepal is that...Somehow people have created a new culture/language called KHAS and have thrown Bahun and Chetris in that basket. So the KHAS has become a tribe...there is no Tribe called KHAS...KHaAS was a language that was believed to be in communication few hundred years ago in some part of Nepal. How the FK i became KHAS.....i am no freakin KHAS...i do not even know what KHAS is.....

If you have something against Bahuns....go ahead and say it as it is....why did you have to package it with KHAS and bash the whole package.

Do Newars know that back in the days KTM was a central hub for trade between southern Nepal (everything outside the Valley) and North ( Tibet and beyond) During those days...many people migrated to the Valley for the sake of trade and few even settled in KTM. That is why when you look at range of NEWARS in KTM some look  Chinese and others look  Bahun Chetris...Haven't you seen a chinese looking Newar...what happened to him....this is what happened, he was a chinese/tibetan came to the valley and settled there...after 3/4 generations they became Newars...similarly a Madhise and a bahun from the hill could have settled in the valley and probably became NEWAR too....I had a friend in Bhaktapur.....he was a pahade bahun whose great great grandfather was brought to Bhaktpur to do Puja aaja....4 generation later my friend was a whole Newar with Ta Ta Ma Ma accent.

Quit tripping about KHAS culture....that culture is dead or has become something else now.

Sidster,

"Every language .......... bhojpuri and Newari."
Tribe is the group of people related by blood or marriage. A tribal language is the language of tribe, that means all the people speaking the language should be family-relative of each other. If you think "Every language in Nepal is a tribal language", then you know nothing about Nepal. Khas language is not a blend of other languages. It has its own originality and uniqueness. A few borrowed words from other languages does not make Khas language "a blend of all" language. "Khas arrogance" is defined by the attitude -- "you (non-khas nepalese citizen) must learn khas language and we (khas nepalese citizen) do not accept you if you don't learn our (khas) language." This arrogance is imposed through state mechanism, not by individual people, so those who gets no chance to learn khas language would be left behind. 

"What do you expect ............politicized so much recently."
Bahun or Chhetris do not need to worry about Newar, Rai, Bhojpuri children. Bahun or Chhetris just need to support/demand equal right for all languages in Nepal. Right now, nations 100% resources is used in preserving and promoting khas language only (education, official use, literature, etc.). Bahun and Chhetris should say, let these resource be shared among all nepalese in a agreeable basis. Newar will do for Newar children, Rai will do for Rai children, Bhojpuri will do for Bhojpuri children. Bahun or Chhetris should just help to remove discreminatory rules and regulation that prevent using other nepalese languages in official use.

"You really think ...... respect for your thing."
Some of your questions are really very important. In fact, Newar subject is available in few public schools as an optional subject, but you can't study optional math or science, if you take Newar subject because they are mutually exclusive choice option. There was a demand changing this rule for students who prefer abandoning Khas subject (Mahendra Maalaa, later named as anibarya Nepali), or other social science subjects, but this was never allowed. These days, some private schools (Modern Newa School, Jagat Sundar Bwonekuthi, etc.) are run in english and newar-medium only. They are doing great. The example about the Newar language class in Dallas, TX, is also a good example. Other cities for example Washington DC, Chicago, Portland, Seattle, etc. also have such programs. Some other cities preparing for this includes New York, Tokyo, London, Toronto, Vancouver etc. 

Khas people complain about Newars holding business. In fact, Newars can not and do not stop Khas or anyone joining business. Khas people are not forced to learn Newar language before doing business. So, this complaint has no meaning. All business regulations, investments, tax, accounting etc. are in khas language and khas people have the upper hand in decision making bodies. Why Khas thinks Newars hold the business? Nowadays, Khas businessmen have hold more business than Newar businessmen, and the rhetoric about Newar doing business is no more true in Nepal.

Your story is an individual case. All struggling and successful Newars also have their own stories, and they are doing good to make their way. These individual stories, rise, fall and survival strategies have nothing to do with the topic we are discussing here. The concerns we are discussing here (complaint in your word) is for correcting the flaw in our system which has institutionalized a systematic discriminatory rules. Unfortunately, many khas people think the rule is fair, and when we oppose the system, they take it as if we are against khas people. You should grow up above that limited understanding.

"You are right.... Participation? Respect? Involvement?????"
Yes, Nepali culture, that I agree, which is inclusive of all cultures we have in Nepal, not only Newar culture. Similarly, Nepali language, that you should agree, which should be inclusive of all languages in Nepal, not only khas language. This is the straightforward message.

"What really upsets me .... the whole package."
Please read my posting on this thread,
http://sajha.com/sajha/html/OpenThread.cfm?forum=283&ThreadID=87310#803030
which might help understanding little more about Khas language. Khas is not a tribe, but a lingual community. Newar is not a tribe, but a linguat community.

"Do Newars know......something else now. "
Yes Newars know that much better than any outsiders. Therefore, they are not a tribe. If you say Khas culture is dead, then you have ask so many khas people of Nepal, what culture they are actually following? Culture does not die, it evolves and changes.

Shantipriya,

"you have been  ..... are little behind lol.."
You have not been to both places, otherwise you won't be showing this much stupidity even after reading so many details I have written about Thimi. The area you highlighted in the picture is called "Gah", it includes a temple - Sungaa dyou (I will show you a latest picture if you want), the tole near by this area is called Gantaa and Sungaa. There is a school building of Baalpremi School, and a pond named Bishnukundal. The area was open public dirty area, when Hongkong was under British rule. Now stop your nonesense trying to show I know nothing about thimi. Except that 10-sec screen shot from the Google Earth, what you know? Dare to write here. If you want, I can write the name of persons from each house residing in the Sunga tole just right near of that area who go there everyday for morning-walk excercise and Jogging. If this is not clean, they don't go. About Siddhipur, I said "a little behind" from the view point of their progress on installing toilet in every household.

"I gave example of ............ a first place."
Which tamang village? I have asked you the name of the basti, you did not write. Man, ichangu danda is a very large area. Be specific about which tamang basti? If you don't know the fact, stop writing tamang basti, raute basti, chepang basti,.... People like you don't read development statistics, don't see data, don't visit the area, don't meet dwellers, but keep on talking about 'positive idea', which is hollow at best. "Khas" are blamed for making Nepal one of the poorest country in the world because they have ruled Nepal and blocked the spirit of development by imposing unitary autocratic rule. This blame is obviously for the "khas" rulers and to those who support the system established by the "khas" rulers like you. So, it is not only the "khas", people like you are also responsible for downfalling the country.

"Under the guies................. Yes I said it."
Show me a single word or sentence that I ever have deameaned other culture and language. This kind of baseless allegation just prove how ignorant you are. I have just opposed the unitary system, which is discriminating others and stopping the chance of equal opportunity for all citizen in favor of Khas language speakers.

"About art .....................Tiwari."
Who are the workers on ground during Lichhavi? They are Newar too. You would feel "Chana_Tarkaari is bragging" if I mention my work-experience with Prof. Dr. Sudarshan Raj Tiwari and other urban system scholars of Nepal. FYI, I have read his books.

"Well ....................... for your own inefficacy?"
You have truly displayed orthodox " I my myself" kind of conservative nature with your all ignorance and wild and unfounded rhetorics.

Chana (GHODA KO DANA)
You proved you are a fanatic. You should better go with Bin Laden's footsteps coz u sound exactly with him. Start a Newari Jihad for equal rights. Language is necessity. We khas people did not need to learn newari language to sustain. But, newars needed it to spread their bussiness. Je ma pani politics garnu parcha???? Mujeee.............nepal chhodera ja...hareko thau ma kina baschas. people like you could not sustain in front us os We won your ktm. So get out of nepal. Hoina bhane tero thotro sampradayikata goji ma rakh. TA JASTO NEWAR HARU AFAI KOHI SANGA PANI MILNA SAKDAINA AFNO SANKUCHIT MANASIKATA KO KARAN LE. SHANTIPRIYA SANGA KEHI SIK GADHA !!!

khoikkhoik,

"I will stop commenting ......... aafno kura rakhnu holaa."
In earlier post, you said, you didn't want to comment, but you commented.  I don't believe that you actually do what you write. Anyway, you got to know what it feels when your own words come back on your face. I mean, you should not throw "alankaars" unless you are not prepared to take a rebutal.

"I just asked him ................ analyzing the case too."
You need to define and identify "prejudice" if you seriously think it is here. The discussion is not against a race but you people are calling it racist from the beginning, whereas I have consistently mentioned that this discussion is against discriminatory system and policy that gives undue advantage to Khas language, which has created Khas domination in our society. Why you don't know Khas language is not the Khas race? Matter of fact, Khas RACE does not exist. Then, why you think it is racist to discuss about this issue?

"Sorry Dude .............. question by yourself."
I am always NEPALI first in my analysis and opinions because I advocate for equal opportunity, I advocate stopping undue advantage to one language only (like khas). You guys have problem right there, because you think the advantage enjoyed by Khas language is obvious, and the discussion should not question about it. Why not? Khas language is supported and promoted by government fund, in which we have equal share, that is our tax money too, not only khas people pay tax. You need to be broad-minded Nepali first. The word "NEPALI" is not Khas-only Nepali, it is not acceptable. A true Nepali should be inclusive of all Nepali to make it acceptable for all nepalese.

"BEFORE ACCUSING ........... from khas community)"
You still believe it is accusing a race. I have said 100 times, IT IS NOT accusing a race. If you think it is racial accusation, you have not seen real racial accusation.

"I am quite surprised ............in certain percentage."
I have acknowledged several times when someone convince me with facts and logic. In this thread alone, I have agreed several facts and issues that are true in my judgement. You may find them if you re-read.

GorkheCowboy,

"Chana (GHODA KO DANA)....... SIK GADHA !!!


I could rename you PaaakheGothaalo, but I don't do that. If asking for equal opportunity is JIHAD for you, then it was started more than 100 years ago. Newar did not learn Khas language for business, they were doing their business before khas had become powerful in Nepal. The arrogance and stupid remark you have shown is exactly the mindset of ruling class, whom I vehemently oppose. Now, Khoikkhoik, and many others who are blaming me for making this discussion a racist topic should come here to judge you and to witness why Newar actually are blaming to Khas.

Never ever expect me to be like Shatipriya, he himself have written somewhere he would be called a traitor, you should find what make him think that about himself.

You know 'divide and rule'. This is not politics??? ha?? You now show your true color.

ko pakhe ?? ghar ko bharyang muni hagera rakhne ta pakhe ki ma ??? ma ta kaji sab ho bujhis....ta jasto dhal le dhoera mula ko saag khane hoina ma........

who prevented you from equality?? talai ke chai pugena ??? aba jamma jammi 2-4 % population bhaera ke tero newar language sabai le bolnu parthyo??? ali khula mutu rakhnu parcha bujhis.....ta haru nai ho timi haru ko tole ma koi chhetri bahun wa anya jat ko manche aayo bhane jagga samma nabechne ani aile karauchas??? ta jasta mula kuwa ko bhyaguta bhaer dherai sabhya huna nakhoj, kathe !!! kathmandu capital hunjel ho tero furfur........decentralize hos ta timi haru jasto jo afno kamjori dekhauna nasakera aru lai dosh laucha testako kasto halat huchaa...

talai aba kahi nabhako equality chaiyo bhane aaija ghosit yudha garum. jasle jitchha teskai hukum chalcha...........cha dum ta sanga??? hoina bhane tero rona dhona sajha ma banda gar, yaha pani khas mai lekhne dherai chhan.

chanacha, are you the son of padhma ratna tuladhar  or his clone or devotee  ?  just curious I have seen enough of your  rhetroic of us vs. them   threads in past . Young upcoming generation of newar runs big blood in brain  becuse they have bigger heart , Chances of your type to be elected are doomed                                                           

"Every language .......... bhojpuri and Newari."
Tribe is the group of people related by blood or marriage. A tribal language is the language of tribe, that means all the people speaking the language should be family-relative of each other. If you think "Every language in Nepal is a tribal language", then you know nothing about Nepal. Khas language is not a blend of other languages. It has its own originality and uniqueness. A few borrowed words from other languages does not make Khas language "a blend of all" language. "Khas arrogance" is defined by the attitude -- "you (non-khas nepalese citizen) must learn khas language and we (khas nepalese citizen) do not accept you if you don't learn our (khas) language." This arrogance is imposed through state mechanism, not by individual people, so those who gets no chance to learn khas language would be left behind. 

Who is saying you must learn Nepali Language...???30 years ago common people in Bhaktapur and Patan did not know how to read and write in Newari, Nepali, or English. I think the option is still there not to learn Nepali, English, newari or any other language. Is there a necessity to learn Nepali language...yes there is ...but is anyone forced to learn the language...no you are not....If you are defining  NECESSITY for FORCE then it must mean that the early settlers in The Valley were probably FORCED to learn Newari Language.

For 2000 years, your people did not see a need to teach and educate common Newars about Newari language, why is it KHAS people's responsibility now in last 200 years to put so much effort in educating Newars in their own Language/Lipi/culture. Why is it our fault that your language is not sophisticated enough to sustain on its own.

"What do you expect ............politicized so much recently."
Bahun or Chhetris do not need to worry about Newar, Rai, Bhojpuri children. Bahun or Chhetris just need to support/demand equal right for all languages in Nepal. Right now, nations 100% resources is used in preserving and promoting khas language only (education, official use, literature, etc.). Bahun and Chhetris should say, let these resource be shared among all nepalese in a agreeable basis. Newar will do for Newar children, Rai will do for Rai children, Bhojpuri will do for Bhojpuri children. Bahun or Chhetris should just help to remove discreminatory rules and regulation that prevent using other nepalese languages in official use.

How exactly are KHAS people promoting their language? Has anyone stopped you from Writing literature in Newari...but wait..you probably do not even know how to write your own name in Newari Lipi. Other Languages do not even have their own Lipi. You really think Newari language or any other language has strong infrastructure to sustain a system on its own??? If the system is not available can we really affford to create a system like that NOW??? Should we rather spent the scarce money to build toilets for remaining 20% of newars who still go to the river bank or fields to excrete, or build houses for jana jati (including poor KHAS) who live under Grass roof with mud walls???? What is the priority here???? And its just not Newars....what about Mongloids...tarei basis and Janajatis.

"You really think ...... respect for your thing."
Some of your questions are really very important. In fact, Newar subject is available in few public schools as an optional subject, but you can't study optional math or science, if you take Newar subject because they are mutually exclusive choice option. There was a demand changing this rule for students who prefer abandoning Khas subject (Mahendra Maalaa, later named as anibarya Nepali), or other social science subjects, but this was never allowed. These days, some private schools (Modern Newa School, Jagat Sundar Bwonekuthi, etc.) are run in english and newar-medium only. They are doing great. The example about the Newar language class in Dallas, TX, is also a good example. Other cities for example Washington DC, Chicago, Portland, Seattle, etc. also have such programs. Some other cities preparing for this includes New York, Tokyo, London, Toronto, Vancouver etc. 

Yes...take a lesson from these examples and do similar things to promote your language/culture. Do not go ask for your rights. Create your own rights. Create your own product. Make your product popular and interesting. Invest in it, promote it, preserve it, but do not expect others to push you up. Pull yourself up and show it to the rest who you are.

Khas people complain about Newars holding business. In fact, Newars can not and do not stop Khas or anyone joining business. Khas people are not forced to learn Newar language before doing business. So, this complaint has no meaning. All business regulations, investments, tax, accounting etc. are in khas language and khas people have the upper hand in decision making bodies. Why Khas thinks Newars hold the business? Nowadays, Khas businessmen have hold more business than Newar businessmen, and the rhetoric about Newar doing business is no more true in Nepal.

Ha ha...You Newars had a monopoly in business solely due to the KHAS Kings protective nature of internal business from the Indians. When the Kings discouraged Indians to do business in Nepal, Newars had an advantage. Everyone use to think that Newars were good at trades but since democracy (Yes the same democracy..that gave you an idea of Newa rajya and Maka Khala) all the Newar businesses has been taken over by the Indians. Mithai pasal...sari pasal....Grocery pasal..they are all gone from Newar Hand...Although i am not a Fan of Kings...i have to say that those KHAS Kings were protecting Newar interests. Without KHAS king protection you have lost your trades as Newars are not as good as Indians in trades...obviously. Let me give you an example of Newari sahuji's customer service..." they use to look at a villager from his shoes to his topi and use to say " Timile Kindaina Jau" when asked for a price...LMAO.

Your story is an individual case. All struggling and successful Newars also have their own stories, and they are doing good to make their way. These individual stories, rise, fall and survival strategies have nothing to do with the topic we are discussing here. The concerns we are discussing here (complaint in your word) is for correcting the flaw in our system which has institutionalized a systematic discriminatory rules. Unfortunately, many khas people think the rule is fair, and when we oppose the system, they take it as if we are against khas people. You should grow up above that limited understanding.

"You are right.... Participation? Respect? Involvement?????"
Yes, Nepali culture, that I agree, which is inclusive of all cultures we have in Nepal, not only Newar culture. Similarly, Nepali language, that you should agree, which should be inclusive of all languages in Nepal, not only khas language. This is the straightforward message.

"What really upsets me .... the whole package."
Please read my posting on this thread,
http://sajha.com/sajha/html/OpenThread.cfm?forum=283&ThreadID=87310#803030
which might help understanding little more about Khas language. Khas is not a tribe, but a lingual community. Newar is not a tribe, but a linguat community.

"Do Newars know......something else now. "
Yes Newars know that much better than any outsiders. Therefore, they are not a tribe. If you say Khas culture is dead, then you have ask so many khas people of Nepal, what culture they are actually following? Culture does not die, it evolves and changes.

Chana_tarkaari,

"Khas people complain about Newars holding business. In fact, Newars can not and do not stop Khas or anyone joining business. Khas people are not forced to learn Newar language before doing business. So, this complaint has no meaning. All business regulations, investments, tax, accounting etc. are in khas language and khas people have the upper hand in decision making bodies. Why Khas thinks Newars hold the business? Nowadays, Khas businessmen have hold more business than Newar businessmen, and the rhetoric about Newar doing business is no more true in Nepal."

- You are talking about state mechanism and decision making bodies. Let's do the head count at the current situation: President, Vice-President, Prime Minister, Chief Justice, Head of Army... Now tell me how many of them are your so called "Khas" people (and also look at the current population distribution in Nepal (You can get the data from Central Buraue of Statistics website)? You counter argument may be...in government offices in general. But then as you mentioned..." Newars can not and do not stop Khas or anyone joining business"....Khas people can not and do not stop anyone from passing Lok Sewa exam and joining the govt offices. Also, Khas people can not and do not stop anyone from being a member of  the parliament and come up with more inclusive rules and acts. I guess everyone will be happy to chip in with their ideas. I agree with you every language and culture within Nepal has to be respected and preserved. Rather than bashing a group who has a common language, let's have a healthy discussion what more can be done to preserve languages like Nepal Bhasa, Maithali, Awadhi, Bhijpuri, Kirat and many more that are spoken in Nepal.  I am glad that your so called Khas language has given a platform to a Maithali speaking from Terai to communicate with a Sherpa in the foot of Mt. Everest, a newar from Kathmandu to exchange ideas with a Tharu from Bardiya. 
By the way, I haven't heard Mahabir Pun (from your so called non-khas group) dai complaining about khas people having upper hand in decision making bodies hindering his cyber dreams. I remember govt even changed the rules (lowering the deposit fee to import VSAT from aborad) in order to help his mission and each and every nepali (regardless of their language and culture) is supporting his works in every possible way. 

GorkheCowboy,

"ko pakhe ?? ghar ko ....... saag khane hoina ma........"
Ha ha ha ha Kajisab, kya dimaag tatyo, haina ta? makai barima pasera bistyayeko kuro pani lekham na lekham. dhal le dhoe pani mal le dhoe pani baari ko mulaa kharpan maa bokera kaji sab ko ghar ghar maa puraauna lyayekoi ho, kajisab ahile bidesh sawari bhaise pani, buba-hajur kajisab harule jyuunaar garisekai ho ke re, bho yo kuro sidhdhinna.

"who prevented you ...... kasto halat huchaa..."
To be precise, it was the khas-hold unitary system who prevented equality in Nepal. Aru bhashaa ko kuro garne bittikaai "dhal maa thutuno jotiye jasari" mukh chhadhera je payo tehi lekhne kajisab le arulai mutu khulaa rakhne arti dina suhauchha? Kathmandu baata capital hataunu paryo bhannera maile dherai aghi nai bhaneko ho. That is very very urgent indeed. Lau saaram saaram, jati sakyo chhito rajdhaani saaram.

"talai aba ..........dherai chhan."
Ghosit yuddha??? ha ha ha ha, yehan anyay bhayo bhanda ta jihaadi bhanchhan tapaika sahodar bandhuharu, aba ghosit yudda ko kuro gare ke matra bhanne hun? Tara yo yuddha bhanya chhedera hune ni hoina, taarera tarne ni hoina, samayale yuddha hune din nimtaula ki panchhaulaa tyo bhavisyaa ma thaha hune chha. sajha ma khas lekhne dherai chhan ta ramro ho ni. ma pani bela bela lekhchhu nai, jaaneko kuro jaanne le lekhne ta ho, najaane kasari lekhne?

Sidster,

"Who is saying ....... own."
Did I ask Khas people should educate Newars? I just said, the rules, system, the laws, the state-mechanism is discriminatory only in favor of khas-language. You clearly don't understand what is the problem.

"How exactly are KHAS people ..........tarei basis and Janajatis."
Get an idea about state fund expenditure on sahitya, education, public documentation, official record keeping, promotion-preservation of culture for different language group and compare, you will see clear picture about it. You think 20% newars still go to the river bank or fields to excrete? then could you care to tell how much % of other people like you go to river bank or fields to excrete? 80%?

"Yes................ you are."
you wrote- "do not ask for your rights???? creat rights????" This makes no sense. You don't understand what you are writing.

"Ha ha...You Newars had a monopoly ......... Timile Kindaina Jau" when asked for a price...LMAO."
LOL. Newah businessmen were protected by khas kings? You think mithai pasal, sari pasal, grocery pasal were protected by khas kings? ha ha ha ha. I never read such lowly opinion. If your line of thinking is true - khas kings promoted newar businessmen, khas leaders promoted indian businessmen, OK? Do you feel good now? The truth is, Newars were on top notch of business when they were good, they slipped down when they became rude on customers as you gave in an example. Zero-role of khas kings on their rise and fall.